Mazhar A. Nurani

14th December, 2009

Pl determine whether it is Verbal noun or active participle

Asim Iqbal 2nd

12th June, 2011

Singular ruqood on the weight fu'ool.

I am not too much interested in verbal noun of form I as these are too many and I would rather prefer weights.

Here is an example using this root:

Lane's Lexicon on Volume 3, Page 1135, column 1, gives as many as 4 verbal nouns for ra qaaf daal form I.

ruqaad on the weight fu'aal

ruqood on the weight fu'ool

raqd on the weight fa'l

marqad on the weight maf'al (but weight maf'al has been used in the Qur'an as noun of place)

if we call all of the above verbal nouns of form 1 will mean all of the above have exactly the same meaning with not even the slightest difference.

I believe there must be some differences no matter how small.

Mazhar A. Nurani

12th June, 2011

و هم رقود is circumstantial clause and a nominal sentence. Therefore رقود is plural whereby the pronoun of predicate corresponds with the subject of sentence. The word is Plural Active Participle, like سجود.

Asim Iqbal 2nd

12th June, 2011

Yes based on nominal sentence subject predicate rule, predicate follows subject in number also.

Muhammad Mohar Ali in A Word for Word Meaning of the Qur'an calls Ruqood plural of Raaqid. Weight of Raaqid is faa'il.

Form I active participle

Dictionary of the Qur'an calls it verbal noun.

So it creates another problem for verbal noun theory, ruqood which is presented as 1 of the 4 verbal noun options is actually a plural also.

Kais

12th June, 2011

Salam Asim,

Just to clarify, verbal nouns do exist as a concept in traditional Arabic grammar. They are known as مصدر. This term is widely used in Arabic linguistic literature.

Asim Iqbal 2nd

12th June, 2011

Wa'alaykum assalaam!

Kindly consider my concern in depth, this is an honest concern just to help Muslims research the Qur'an and benefit from it even further.

The effect of calling a word of any weight form I verbal noun, is that it immediately removes the effect of the weight and renders it merely having the basic meaning of the verbal form without reference to subject, object, time.

I know verbal nouns exist as a concept. Verbal nouns are decided by the human efforts of the grammar and vocabulary scholars.

Verbal nouns have the basic meaning of the verbal form without reference to subject, object, time.

Lets analyse verbal noun concept further, Wright on Volume 1 , Page 110 states: The nomina verbi, asmaa.ul fi'l, are abstract substantives, which express the action, passion, or state indicated by the corresponding verbs, without any reference to object, subject, or time.

He then lists 44 verbal nouns from form I.

There are also some verbal adjectives that have the same weight as verbal nouns.

Then, there are differences of opinion regarding some verbal nouns also.

We have some words in the Qur'an used in different meaning shades, but these words are labelled as form I verbal nouns by Lexicons, supposed to have exactly the same basic meaning.

1 example below to explain this further

Suad daal daal

Asim Iqbal 2nd

12th June, 2011

Lane's Lexicon and your sources give 2 options for form I verbal noun

sudood on the weight fu'ool

sadd on the weight fa'l (fall)

But if both are verbal nouns of form I, both must have exactly the same meaning, i.e. basic meaning of the root form, but below, I show that both have some difference in meaning. Here we get help from the Qur'an which has used both these weights.

In corpus site also both are labelled as verbal noun (form I) , i.e. your sources also give 2 verbal nouns of form I. Now in this example we find both the weights , called verbal nouns of form I, supposed to have the same meaning, are used in the Qur'an with different meanings according to translators since they translated them differently. This is an important point.

Sudood has been translated by most in the sense of aversion

Sadd has been translated by most in the sense of hinderance.

See:

http://corpus.quran.com/qurandictionary.jsp?q=Sdd

I suggest we give this situation more thought, as this is something that can help in understanding the Qur'an better. I have been considering the concept since long time.

I test things in the light of the Qur'an including Arabic Grammar, since the Qur'an is the furqaan, and nothing is furqaan over it. If there is a contradiction between an Arabic Grammar concept at any level and Qur'an , I follow Qur'an. Arabic Grammar is a human effort and in human efforts there are always chances of improvement.

Derived verbal forms verbal nouns are mostly clear.

Lets discuss using 2 verbal noun labellings of suad daal daal or some other example using the Qur'an.

Asim Iqbal 2nd

13th June, 2011

Research should be done on some words having weights containing additional letters used in the Qur'an but called verbal nouns of form I in lexicons, and how they have been translated compared to the basic meaning of the root form.