Asim Iqbal 2nd

17th June, 2011

Form IX passive particple.

ta may also be for intensity or for exceptional feminine if ardz is considered exceptional feminine (i.e. not feminine, but considered feminine only by usage in language) e.g. in English ship is exceptional feminine, in Urdu curd is exceptional masculine.

Translation attempt: (for exceptional feminine: made green, turned green, (for ta of intensity: filled with greenery)

Asim Iqbal 2nd

17th June, 2011

This completes initial analysis of form IX and form XI.

Brief explanation of form IX and XI extracted using Wright's Arabic Grammar:

1. To express colours and defects.

2. Usually colours and defects, clinge firmly to persons/things and hence doubling of laam to show that proper signification of both is intensiveness.

3. Weight of maadzi is if'alla and if'aalla but if waw or ya come as 3rd letter of root, weight is modified to if'alala and if'aalala

4. 3 different views of grammarians regarding differences between the 2:

i. 2 forms are indistinguishable in sense

OR

ii. IX for permanent, XI for transitory (Note: XI as tranitory is refuted by use of mudhaammataan in the Qur'an as the gardens referred to, which in my understanding possess the quality permanently)

OR

iii. XI is of higher degree (intensity) than IX

Mazhar A. Nurani

17th June, 2011

Salam Asim,

The original translation and attempted translation convert "active participle" into passive participle. Measure IX does not have a passive voice. The word is predicate.

"whereby the Earth becomes [active participial] source-producer of greenery [life/photosynthesis]".

Asim Iqbal 2nd

17th June, 2011

salam!

I am referring to passive participle, not passive voice which is not possible in some forms and I also gave reference to Mr Mohar Ali's work, maybe some one can check jamal un nisa juz series also to see how she labels form IX participles or ask dr v abdur raheem who has now become an online scholar offering almost his important material for free download at www.drvaniya.com

And in derived forms fatah on top of 'ayn is a sign of passive participle and kasra below 'ayn is a sign of active participle.

my translation attempt same as before.

Kindly share some light on how with fatah on ayn, a weight can be active participle in derived verbal forms, kindly also check form VII participles.

Asim Iqbal 2nd

17th June, 2011

Also check out (18:36:12), where a form VII word munqalab has been labelled as passive participle. Again easy rule 'ayn has fatah or kasra to quickly decide passive or active.

Mazhar A. Nurani

17th June, 2011

Salam Asim,

[I am referring to passive participle, not passive voice which is not possible in some forms and I also gave reference to Mr Mohar Ali's work]

A Passive Participle is derived from Passive Voice Verb [الفعل المجهول]. The word is correctly tagged as 'Active Participle-IX". Form IX does not follow the standard pattern of using a kasra and instead uses a fatha-مصفَر

Asim Iqbal 2nd

18th June, 2011

So form IX and XI according to some grammarians don't have a passive participle weight and weight muf'all is for active particple and if that opinion is to be followed despite below discussion, my suggestions on all particples of IX and XI can be rejected. But I suggest you give my thoughts a thought.

And the fate of particple of IX and XI to be discussed again in this location based on other concepts here. i.e. my 1st paragraph gives the answer if following the rule of some of the grammarians is chosen blindly. Now I discuss some other points.

Lets put aside the idea that form IX is only active particple for a moment and consider the participles in more depth, logically.

In my opinion, either it is passive or neuter (more probable).

tusbihu is form IV Madzaare and the same grammarians say form IV is transitive , if it is transitive, then faa'il and maf'ool should be different.

fatusbihu : apparently fa is for then here

Quick Translation attempt (note capital for emphasis of lam, and capital for ALLAH in respect) : have you NOT seen that ALLAH has sent down from the sky, water, then becomes green* the earth.../then causes the earth become green**...

Asim Iqbal 2nd

18th June, 2011

*ignoring grammarians form IV transitive rule, if rule is followed, then (ALLAH) makes it become green, which will violate grammarians rule that IX participle is active. (kindly give this point a thought)

**ignoring the rule that form IX can't be passive

1. If it is not passive particple, and only active particple, then who is the maf'ool i.e. who is being effected by the action. If it is active particple then it is also the passive participle. i.e. the doer of action and one on which the action is being done is the same thing.

2. Neuter Participle (text in {these brackets is my comments below} ) :

Wright's Arabic Grammar, Volume 1 , page 48, 49, 50

Asim Iqbal 2nd

18th June, 2011

Quote : "

73. All the verbal forms, both primitive and derivative, have 2 voices, the active and the passive, with the exception of intransitive verbs of the form fa'ula and of the 9th, 11th, 12th, 13th, 14th and 15th formsas well as those verbs of the forms fa'ila and fa'ala, which designate not an act (transitive or intransitive) but a state or condition (being or becoming) {AI2: e.g. becoming green, becoming white, becoming black}, as khadzira to become green, nearly=ikhdzarra; salaha to be good, right, in order, = saluha; fasada to be bad, wrong, in disorder, = fasuda. The subject of an active voice is always an agent (person or thing), whose act may affect an object, or not; the subject of the passive voice is either the object of the former (personal passive), or the abstract idea of the act (impersonal passive) {AI2: Note use of word passive in both cases specially think more on personal passive}

...75. Verbs that express a state or condition, or signify an act, by its very nature, confined to the person of the subject, and cannot pass to another individual as its object (as maridza to be sick, naama to sleep), are aptly called neuter verbs, since they are neither really active, nor really passive, but something between the 2. The Arab grammarians cannot class them otherwise than among the active verbs and they therefore distinguish transitive verbs, from intransitive verbs, verbs that are confined to the subject.

I suggest a new term: Neuter Participle .

Asim Iqbal 2nd

18th June, 2011

and wa'alaykum assalaam!

Asim Iqbal 2nd

18th June, 2011

since labelling the participles of all form IX and XI participles here is linked to this discussion, another aspect must also be considered, maf'ool is mansoob (accusative) and faa'il is marfoo' (nominative). mukhdzarratan is mansoob, can any one explain why?

Mazhar A. Nurani

18th June, 2011

As stated earlier the word is predicate of artificial/deficient verb تصبح, hence accusative.

Asim

9th June, 2013

Form IX Active Participle .

Grammarians label such forms as active participle and for forms VII, IX and XI there is no passive participle.

Notes: Wright’s Arabic Grammar Volume 1 pages 50, 51

Verbs that express a state or condition, or signify an act which is, by its very nature, confined to the person of the subject, and cannot pass to another individual as its object مَرِضَ (as to be sick, نَامَ to sleep), are aptly called neuter verbs, since they are neither really active nor really passive, but something between the two. The Arab grammarians cannot class them otherwise than among the active verbs, and they therefore distinguish أَلْأَفْعَالُ ٱلْمُتَعَدِّيَة , transitive verbs from أَلْأَفْعَالُ غَيْرُ ٱلْمُتَعَدِّيَة, intransitive verbs, or أَلْأَفْعَالُ ٱللَّازِمَة, verbs that are confined to the subject.