Asim Iqbal 2nd

23rd June, 2011

Form VIII Passive Participle (or Neuter Participle)

Asim Iqbal 2nd

23rd June, 2011

Further discussion required.

Mazhar A. Nurani

23rd June, 2011

Active participle!!!

Asim Iqbal 2nd

23rd June, 2011

And who is the passive participle in this context? if you can prove someone other than active participle, I am ready to label it as active participle, but if you can't, then I am also right in labelling it as passive participle in the the same sense that you are right in labelling it as active participle.

Asim Iqbal 2nd

23rd June, 2011

So I suggest neuter participle, unless proven otherwise.

Mazhar A. Nurani

23rd June, 2011

[And who is the passive participle in this context?] For intransitive verbs we won't find passive participles.

Asim Iqbal 2nd

23rd June, 2011

Yes thats what I am trying to convey, i.e., if grammarians are considered flawless and with no need of further possibility of improvement in any of their rule, then they label such as active participle, then why consider grammar excempt from improvement rule applicable in Islamic sciences and other sciences of Islam.

What I am trying to label as is something closer to the truth, i.e. , a participle that is both active and passive at the same time, i.e. a situation in which the subject and object is the same person, a situation in which the action turns back on the subject. So Neuter participle is a term closer to the truth.

Asim Iqbal 2nd

23rd June, 2011

If Wright is right in his below mentioned statement, then

Wright's Arabic Grammar, Volume 1 , page 49, 50

"75. Verbs that express a state or condition, or signify an act, by its very nature, confined to the person of the subject, and cannot pass to another individual as its object (as maridza to be sick, naama to sleep), are aptly called neuter verbs, since they are neither really active, nor really passive, but something between the 2. The Arab grammarians cannot class them otherwise than among the active verbs and they therefore distinguish transitive verbs, from intransitive verbs, verbs that are confined to the subject."

Apparently what grammarians did is differentiate between transitive and intransitive and keep participles 2 i.e. active and passive. For intransitive, in which participle was both active and passive at the same time, they labelled it as active. But why hide the other side of the same coin, it is also the passive participle at the same time.

We can label them otherwise, not binding ourself by 2 options only i.e. active participle and passive participle and for the truth suggesting a 3rd option neuter participle, for such cases.

Abdul Rahman

24th June, 2011

The above discussion is interesting, but please do not make something which is quite simple and straightforward into something too complicated. The reason why the Arab grammarians "...cannot class them otherwise than among the active verbs" is because those so-called "neuter" verbs have only "active" participles -- they have the same weight or measure (faa3il) as the participle of obviously "active" verbs. At the same time, they do not have a "maf3ool". So, transitive verbs have both a faa3il and a maf3ool. Intransitive verbs have only a faa3il, no maf3ool. The scheme is simple and easy to understand.

Kais

12th October, 2014

From: Kapali Lyon

In 4:36 مُخْتَالًا is parsed as a noun. It should be analyzed as a form VIII active participle. Although active and passive participles of middle week verbs in VIII are indistinguishable, the context requires the active meaning.

Kapali Lyon

University of Hawaii at Mānoa (Hawaiʻi)

Asim

12th October, 2014

Salaam!

I have reviewed my earlier analysis and now labeled it as Active Participle. More than 3 years have also passed since that message by me.

I have also completed Form I abwaab labeling in my documents e.g. a-u, a-i, a-a, i-a, i-i, u-u etc. Let me know if you are interested. I can send you latest document in excel or PDF. Rules mentioned in Howell Arabic Grammar made it easy to verify the form I abwaab and many dictionaries were consulted also mostly using Arabic Almanac.

Some more improvements are in progress expected to be complete by 2014 end inshaALLAH!

You know my email addresses. Lets discuss via email.