FS

4th May, 2011

Salaam,

Could we change this to circumstantial accusative? Since it describes the circumstance of the action 'took religion as amusement and play', do we tag it as:

CIRC- circumstantial accusative indefinite masculine

wallahu a'alam

Kais

5th May, 2011

Salam FS,

Thank you kindly for your suggestion. Yes - you are right - this is indeed a circumstantial accusative. However, this page is mostly concerned with morphology. So the word-by-word page lists: Part-of-speech, noun case, verb mood, noun derivation, gender, etc. For syntactic roles (subject, object, predicate, circumstantial accusatives, etc), there is a separate project that I invite you to also contribute to - this is the treebank project. Of course in reality, there is lots of overlap between morphology and syntax, and in grammar the two have an effect on each other.

I think once the treebank project is completed, we can combine the two projects more closely, and then show much more syntactic information on this page. However, for you, it would be great if you might consider to start to review the treebank - that is the best place to discuss syntax.

FS

7th May, 2011

Wa alaykum Salaam Kais,

Thanks for the clarification, yes that makes sense. It's good to be reminded sometimes as the difference between the two are quite blurred and overlap. Okay that's great- thanks!

Mazhar A. Nurani

7th May, 2011

Assalamo Alaikum, Kais,

May be the easy solution, add a page in Grammer section, indicating 12 roles when the noun will be in accusative case/state.

Kais

7th May, 2011

Salamu Alaykum,

That is an excellent idea! Inshallah we can include a new page listing all these uses of the accusative that we annotate in the treebank. Also, inshallah, once the treebank is completed, the plan is to list the reason for a word being accusative on this page, for each word in the Quran (this can be done automatically inshallah).

For now, I've listed the 16 reasons that we tag a word as accusative, according to the syntactic treebank. I hope this helps:

(1) Object of a verb - maf'ool bihi

(2) Circumstantial accusative - haal

(3) Cognate accusative - maf'ool mutlaq

(4) Specification - tamyeez

(5) Time or location adverb - dharf zaman ow makan

(6) Vocative - munada

(7) Exceptive - mustathna

(8) Accusative of ourpose - maf'ool liajlihi

(9) Comitative object - maf'ool ma'ah

(10) Subject of inna or her sisters

(11) Predicate of kaana or her sisters

(12) Emphasis - tawkeed, e.g. (2:31:4)

(13) Compound - murakkab, e.g. (74:30:3)

(14) Adjective of another accusative word - sifa limansoob

(15) Apposition to another accusative word - badl limansoob

(16) Conjunction to another accusative word - 'atf ala mansoob

Mazhar A. Nurani

7th May, 2011

Noun of Negation Particle النَّاْفِيَةُ لِلْجِنْس- negating of genus;

Predicate of "La" and "Ma" that act like Laisa.

maf'ool Fehi

Kais

7th May, 2011

Yes, thanks. At the moment, in the treebank, النافية للجنس is considered to a special case of a predicate of kaana and her sisters (laysa), but it may be worth making a separate distinction - I agree.

However, what about مفعول فيه? I thought that was the same as dharf zaman ow makan - or is there an example in the Quran where the two are different things? At the moment there is no special relationship for مفعول فيه used anywhere in the treebank as far as I can tell, although we do tag time and location adverbs as parts-of-speech.

This is a very interesting discussion, as we are clarifying the syntactic relationships used in the dependency graphs for the entire Quran. I would be keen to ensure that this is being done correctly, inshallah.

Mazhar A. Nurani

7th May, 2011

مفعول فيه? I thought that was the same as dharf zaman ow makan.

Yes. Being adverbial, all of the adverbs of time are accusative. However, quantified noun of location, like Masjid, needs a preposition, and is not accusative. Therefore specific term مفعول فيه is used in the classification/categorization of Accusative Nouns.

FS

9th May, 2011

Salaam Kais and Mazhar,

I think the grammar page idea is a good one and it will be a quick way for people to have an overview of the accusatives, genitives and nominatives. As for the content of the list it might be an idea to include those roles that are agreed upon by all the major grammar schools (they are always the easy ones), so where there is a difference of opinion we leave that role out.

Wallahu a'alam

Kais

9th May, 2011

Salam. Thank you for your response - yep I think listing an overview of the accusatives, genitives and nominatives is a great idea - thanks.

However, you have got me very curious about something. The above list is based indirectly on Salih's detailed i'rab of the Quran. Out of interest - which roles from the above list do you feel are not generally accepted? I was planning to include the full list. Looking forward to hearing from you.

w/salam

FS

10th May, 2011

Wa alaykum salaam, the list that you have above is fine and seems exhaustive; yes please include all those roles there for accusatives. These roles are generally accepted, my comment was a general one (about Nahw) and I am sure we will not go so far (into the smallest details because this is where the disagreements occur) as to need to know the differences.

Wallahu a'alam

daawuwd

15th May, 2011

salaam kais, traditionally i think that they taught 12 places of accusative منصوبات , at least the sources we studied from which have been used by many scholars since the good old days, i have never heard about more than twelve. Please let me know if your list was in the view of some other opinion.

The "extra" ones listed above would fit into the other 12 or have a separate explanation (according to the method we were taught).

They break down into 22 places, 8 for Nominative مرفوعات . for Accusative there are 12 ( منصوبات) and 2 for Genitive ( مجروران)

daawuwd

15th May, 2011

The Nominative Places مرفوعات

1.Actor - فاعل

2.Deputy Actor - ناإب فاعل

3.subject - مبتداء

4.predicate - خبر

5.predicate of Inna and her sisters - خبر إنّ و أخواتها

6.subject(ism) of kaana and her sisters - اسم كان و أخواتها

7.subject(ism) of maa and laa which are similar to laysa - اسم ما و لا المشبّهتين بليس

8.predicate of laa which negates class/species - خبر لا التي لنفي الجنس

Examples

1. Zaid came. - جاء زيدٌ

2. Zaid was hit. - ضُرِبَ زيدٌ

3&4. The house is big. - البيتُ كبيرٌ

5. Verily Muhammad is tall - إنّ محمدًا طويلٌ

6. The house was clean. - كان البيتُ نظيفا

7. No man is better than you. - لا رجلٌ أفضلَ منك

8. There is no man in the house - لا رجلَ (موجودٌ)في الدارِ

daawuwd

15th May, 2011

The Nominative Places منصوبات

1. Object of a verb - مفعول به

2. Cognate accusative - مفعول مطلق

3. Time or location adverb - مفعول فيه

4. Accusative of purpose - مفعول له

5. Comitative object - مفعول معه

6. Circumstantial accusative (condition of actor,object or both) - حال

7. Specification - تميز

8. predicate of kaana and her sisters - خبر كان و أخواتها

9. subject(ism) of Inna and her sisters - اسم إنّ و أخواتها

10. subject(ism) of laa which negates class/species - اسم لا التي لنفي الجنس

11. predicate of maa and laa which are similar to laysa - خبر ما و لا المشبّهتين بليس

12. Exceptive - مستثنى

Examples

1. He hit Zaid. - ضَرَبَ زيدًا

2. I hit him severly.- ضَرَبْتهُ ضربًا

3. I sat behind you. - جلستُ خلفَك

4. I hit him for discipline. - ضَرَبْتهُ تأديبًا

5. Zaid came with the book. - جاء زيدٌ و الكتابَ

6. He came to me mounted. - جاءني راكبًا

7. I saw eleven stars. - رأيتُ أحد عشر كوكبًا

8. The house was clean. - كان البيتُ نظيفًا

9. Verily Muhammad is tall. - - إنّ محمدًا طويلٌ

10. There is no man in the house. - لا رجلَ في الدارِ

11. Zaid is not standing. - ما زيدٌ قاءِمًا

12. The tribe came except for Zaid. - جاء القومُ إلا زيدًا

daawuwd

15th May, 2011

The Nominative Places مجروران

1. an ism which is preceded by a preposition - اسم مجرور

2. an ism which is possessing something - مضاف إليه

Examples

1. ...from the market. - من السوق ِ ...

2. Zaid's book ... - كتابُ زيدٍ

These are very basic and most of them have numerous rules and what not. Also the examples are all done with one of the most basic method of reflection out of the 9 methods.

daawuwd

15th May, 2011

The reason that Vocative (munaadaa) is accusative is because it is in the place of an Object of a verb - مفعول به , with the ommited sentence something like: I am calling أنادي , "O slave of Zaid!" أدعوغلامَ زيدٍ = يا غلامَ زيدٍ or whatever sentence you want to assume.

With regards to 12-16 in the list mentioned above, we were taught that they are a group called "the followers" التوابع and consist of an ism follower and the followed ism التابع و المتبوع. They wouldnt enjoy the status of being in the 22 places (according to our teaching method) but they correspond with whatever governing was done to its counterpart which would fall in one of the 22.

The technical terms of "the followers" التوابع are :

تأكيد - Emphasis

صفة أو نعت - Description

بدل - not sure in english ?

عطف بحرف - ?

- عطف البيان ?

daawuwd

15th May, 2011

Regarding the compound مركّب ,im assuming you mean the numbers from 11-19 (excluding 12).

These are actualy called مركّب بناءِي and they are المبني (indeclinable in english?) and the reason is there was a waaw و in between the two numbers, but it got removed and the two numbers became one. It is one of nine types of indeclinable isms.

example would be - Eleven men came. جاء أحدَ عشرَ رجلا ً

The tamiyz and the mumayyaz ( specification and the specified) together become the Actor in the nominative case.

This took me very long to type as i am just learning how to type arabic as we speak so please help with any mistakes.(my english is probably worse than my arabic)

daawuwd

15th May, 2011

also, i had the examples in red font but it didnt paste into it so you will have to figure it out or ask.

was-salaam

Kais

16th May, 2011

Thank you this is extremely helpful. Inshallah in the next version of the website we can include a new page in the grammar section on noun cases and include all this information. Thanks again!

daawuwd

16th May, 2011

No problem at all. I think it would also be a good idea to include a bit more information about each as each one has a fairly large discussion on its own.

Kais

16th May, 2011

Salam. We already have some basic information about most of these roles, which you can browse by clicking the "Quranic Grammar" button on the left menu at the top of this page. For example, this page briefly discusses apposition (badl). We do need to expand those pages - any submissions are welcome.