Naumaan N

30th May, 2011

In a few places, this word 'bayna' has been translated as 'was/is' (2:97:14 and others) and the word 'aydihim' (in its various forms) has been given the meaning 'between' (and similar meanings). I do not understand the reason for this difference in translation in these few cases. Most of the other occurrences have been translated the proper way, i.e, with 'bayna' as the location adverb in the sentence, as it should be, and giving 'aydihim' the correct meaning from its range depending on the context. Is it an error in translation?

Asim Iqbal 2nd

30th May, 2011

Salam!

Read Wright's Arabic Grammar , Volume 2 , Pages 180 and 181 for some study of bayna.

You will Insha'ALLAH have your answer to the bayna yadayhi used in this ayat.

Naumaan N

31st May, 2011

Wa alaikum salaam.

Jazakallah for the reference! However, I still do not see the justification for this form of translation in the particular instance here, which differs from that in other occurences.

To quote two examples used in Wright's Arabic Grammar, he presents, 'bayna yaday fulaanin', which means 'before anyone, in his presence' (literally: between his hands). Comparing the meaning in context and the literal translation, I see that 'bayna' retains its meaning of 'between/before'.

Next, he presents, 'musaddiqal lima bayna yadayhi' which means, 'confirming what was before it'. Again, word by word, bayna is 'before', and 'yadayhi' is 'it' (literally: its hands).

This is same as what appears here in this ayah and so, I believe that 2:97:14 (bayna) should translate to 'before' and 2:97:15, to 'it' (literally: its hands. here: its presence). To cite an instance where it has been translated in this manner, see 6:92:7-8.

Asim Iqbal 2nd

31st May, 2011

Literally Bayna yadaihi : Between his/its 2hands ,

Translated in English as : Before it, in its presence.

I suggest you read Verbal Idioms of the Qur'an available for free download to have a better idea of idioms.

also consider context. Context here is that Qur'an is being discussed, literal translation can't be done unless English also uses between its 2hands for before it, in its presence, which English doesn't.

Naumaan N

31st May, 2011

Wa alaikum salaam.

I think you're misinterpreting what I'm trying to say. I know about the idioms and that the translation depends on context.

What I'm simply trying to say is that, though the two words are part of one construct, they have been split in the word by word translation (because the Corpus tries to give a word-by-word meaning). And this word by word translation gives the translation for 'bayna' as '(was)' and aydihim as 'before it'. My question is simply, why is the split like this? It gives a wrong sense of the meaning of the word 'bayna' and of 'aydihim' both.

Even though it is an idiom, since it has to be split here, a better way of splitting the idiom is 'before' for 'bayna' and 'it' for aydihim. The meaning has not changed, nor has the idiom been ignored. The split of words has just been done in an appropriate way.

Kais

31st May, 2011

Salam Naumaan. Thank you kindly for your suggestion. Inshallah the next version of the website will include this improvement. If you have the time, it would be extremely helpful to go through and post messages at other words that you feel could be improved (you did mention some other cases of this idiom that might be improved). Thanks again - inshallah we will include this suggestion and improve the translation for this during the next update of the website.

Asim Iqbal 2nd

31st May, 2011

I think clarification should be given in both bayna and yadaihi that this is part of a 2 word idiom meaning before it and alone the words can't be translated the way they have been done.

Also in English there is a term beforehand which can't be translated in other languages literally.